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  • #31
    Originally posted by BEN View Post
    WHAT?????
    Thats the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard! The reaction times of the DSC are poor at best, if you cant react quicker to the car than the DSC then you should'nt be driving it fast.
    According to the Racelogic website as found here: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Tra...l-How_it_Works

    It states:
    The fastest human reaction to a sense stimulus is 1/10th of a second, and the fastest acting throttle reacts in around the same time. This means there is a 2/10ths of a second lag between the wheel reaching a critical slip level, and the driver being able to change the amount of power being applied.

    and

    The speed of reaction of a race Traction Control System is critical in maintaining a precise level of slip. The electronics themselves can react within a thousandth of a second

    Are you suggesting that your reaction times are within one thousandths of a second?
    /// Exdos ///
    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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    • #32
      Originally posted by exdos View Post
      I wouldn't say it's perfect but I'd rate its ability at detecting impending severe instability better than yours or my reaction times.

      You know that I like gadgets, experimentation and analysing stuff and since my MC came with DSC then for me its been natural to explore what DSC has to offer. I haven't just dismissed it like some might. Since the DSC is continuously monitoring every millisecond of the stability of the car it knows exactly how close to the edge the car might be when I only think I know where it is. It's helped me to tune my suspension and given me a better understanding of vehicle dynamics than if my MC didn't have it, in the same way that my DashDyno datalogger tells me what effects my mods have on performance. I think that from the way I've used it as a "teacher" it has also made me a much better driver too. None of us are ever too old to learn, even at my great age. If you think this implies I am a wuss behind the wheel that's your choice
      What I think is that the DSC is set to air on the side of caution to accommodate drivers with less talent.

      I have used the DSC in my CSL and a Z3MC, which at the first sign of slip strangle the power causing a kangeroo'ing effect.

      How can you know to drive to the very limit of the car before the DSC hinders you? How do you know you are not way before it? (10 or 20% before)

      The only way to tell you are ear it is once you have hit it.

      Pointless conversation.

      Exdos opinion = DSC great
      Lee opinion = DSC very poor

      I dont think anyone could convince you otherwise.

      Enjoy!
      Ex 'V3RY M - MCoupe track monster'
      New toys

      Porsche widebody project

      Cayenne Diesel

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      • #33
        Originally posted by c_w View Post
        I think what also might be worth mentioning is that the DSC on the Z3Ms was BMW's first attempt at a proper traction control system (ASC on the non-M Z3s and E36s which is proper crap isn't really worth a mention) so in terms of lifecycle would it not be sensible to say that the DSC on the Z3M is probably very crude compared todays systems?
        Is that right ? - its DSC III same as fitted to E46 M3. I didn't know that was the first attempt.

        I think you are right though the newer DSC is probably much better.
        Ex 2001 S54
        New cars:
        Lotus Carlton
        350Z

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        • #34
          Originally posted by exdos View Post
          According to the Racelogic website as found here: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Tra...l-How_it_Works

          It states:
          The fastest human reaction to a sense stimulus is 1/10th of a second, and the fastest acting throttle reacts in around the same time. This means there is a 2/10ths of a second lag between the wheel reaching a critical slip level, and the driver being able to change the amount of power being applied.

          and

          The speed of reaction of a race Traction Control System is critical in maintaining a precise level of slip. The electronics themselves can react within a thousandth of a second

          Are you suggesting that your reaction times are within one thousandths of a second?
          Racelogic is used widely across a whole range of sports and race cars and is obviously a lot better than the DSC as you can set it up according to the conditions.
          Ex 'V3RY M - MCoupe track monster'
          New toys

          Porsche widebody project

          Cayenne Diesel

          Comment


          • #35
            But your talking about DSC, not racelogic, or are we talking about both now for the sake of it?

            They said.....
            The speed of reaction of a race Traction Control System is critical in maintaining a precise level of slip. The electronics themselves can react within a thousandth of a second

            The BMW DSC system is far from a race TC system, and I can react quicker than the BMW one yes.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by BEN View Post

              The BMW DSC system is far from a race TC system
              Totally agree, its not supposed to be is it though.

              I don't think it needs to be used on track, however on the road I feel it is useful and I can drive as quickly as you should on the road with it still on and it doesn't interfer usually (unless its wet).
              Ex 2001 S54
              New cars:
              Lotus Carlton
              350Z

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BEN View Post

                The BMW DSC system is far from a race TC system, and I can react quicker than the BMW one yes.
                So you're suggesting that BMW's DSC uses an electronic microchip system that operates at a speed less than 1/10th of a second?
                Last edited by exdos; 08-12-2008, 05:23 PM.
                /// Exdos ///
                "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by exdos View Post
                  So you're suggesting that BMW's DSC uses an electronic microchip system that operates at a speed less than 1/10th of a second?
                  your the one with all the facts figures and statements, you tell me?

                  Your taking information from a different system and trying to apply them to another which works in a different way.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BEN View Post
                    your the one with all the facts figures and statements, you tell me?

                    Your taking information from a different system and trying to apply them to another which works in a different way.
                    Not at all. You are the person claiming to have a reaction time faster than an electronic microchip system. Personally, I very much doubt you have but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
                    /// Exdos ///
                    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I think that the DSC map needs a remap (is that possible?). It is clearly designed to save joe public from a disaster on the road and therefore errs on the side of caution - not good on track. You know from previous experience that you are safe to feed in the throttle but the computer says no.
                      Strongstrut CL front brace-Yellowstuff pads/Castrol SRF race brake fluid-Rogue top mounts/Rear support bushes-H&R ARBs-Whiteline droplinks-Bilstein Sport shockers-H&R Springs-Black Halo Angel Eye headlight units-Sachs lightweight flywheel/matching clutch-Supersprint exhaust/race catalysers-BBS RSGTs with Falkens-K&N High Flow Air Filter-Recaro Pole Position seats - Exdos mod - ACS flippers

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by coupe fan View Post
                        I think that the DSC map needs a remap (is that possible?). It is clearly designed to save joe public from a disaster on the road and therefore errs on the side of caution - not good on track. You know from previous experience that you are safe to feed in the throttle but the computer says no.
                        Bingo!

                        From someone who undertakes a fair amount of track days too!

                        I was at Brands a couple of weeks ago and it was very wet, I was quite glad of the DSC but in the dry I would either turn it off or apply M track mode.
                        Ex 'V3RY M - MCoupe track monster'
                        New toys

                        Porsche widebody project

                        Cayenne Diesel

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by exdos View Post
                          Not at all. You are the person claiming to have a reaction time faster than an electronic microchip system. Personally, I very much doubt you have but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
                          At what point did I say that?

                          You are assuming that the DSC works at the same speed as the racelogic system, it's clear that the BMW DSC takes longer than 1/10th of a second to work.
                          Whatever speed the microchip works at by the time it has reacted and started applying the brakes it's a lot more than 1/10th of a second.

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                          • #43
                            Ok thats good, I think we are all in agreement that the DSC system is not the best.

                            Ex 'V3RY M - MCoupe track monster'
                            New toys

                            Porsche widebody project

                            Cayenne Diesel

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lee View Post
                              I was at Brands a couple of weeks ago and it was very wet, I was quite glad of the DSC
                              Only six days ago, in the earlier thread here, http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7493 you wrote:

                              Originally posted by Lee View Post
                              Bugger traction, who needs that?
                              /// Exdos ///
                              "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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                              • #45
                                Ah yes but.... if I was on a new track for the first time, I would leave the DSC on for the first 1 or 2 sessions whilst I familiarised myself with the track. It would enable me to push a bit harder and take the corners faster knowing that I had a safety net if I misremembered a corner.
                                Strongstrut CL front brace-Yellowstuff pads/Castrol SRF race brake fluid-Rogue top mounts/Rear support bushes-H&R ARBs-Whiteline droplinks-Bilstein Sport shockers-H&R Springs-Black Halo Angel Eye headlight units-Sachs lightweight flywheel/matching clutch-Supersprint exhaust/race catalysers-BBS RSGTs with Falkens-K&N High Flow Air Filter-Recaro Pole Position seats - Exdos mod - ACS flippers

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