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  • #16
    So it does have cruise!

    As for the sunroof, I think I would prefer it without it this car, id rather be sat in the dark than having to look at that awful kiwi interior!!
    2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by exdos View Post
      I agree that it is very expensive.

      Take the E-Type Jag as an example of a classic car. They were in production from 1961 to 1974 in a few different Marks and a total of over 70,000 of them were made, they sold new for around £3,500 (averageish). Looking on Pistonheads today, the cheapest one presently for sale is £25,500 and the most expensive is £85,750. Since the majority of cars that are made depreciate like mad and then ultimately get scrapped, it could be argued that all existing E-Type Jags that are for sale now are grossly over-priced. At what point in time did E-Type Jags start selling for MORE than their original purchase price? Is that the point in time when a car becomes a "classic"?

      The Phoenix Yellow MC with 14,700 miles presently for sale at Hexagon for £29,995 is priced at around the price it would have been offered at in June 2003 when I bought mine with 3,600 miles for £31,300. In May 2006, Hexagon had a Phoenix Yellow /Kiwi MC with 3,000 miles for sale at £28,995 (possibly the same car?), so to me, at least, it looks like Hexagon thinks that MC prices should be on the rise. It may well sit around at Hexagon for a couple of years before it sells again, but with interest rates at only 0.5%, the profit that Hexagon will eventually make on a car which it has just bought for £22,995 will considerably exceed any return made as interest on a bank deposit of the same amount.
      yes I agree with your points , also I think it is the car they have already owned.
      I would also think this may help people like ML & CH sell their stock!
      to give another comparison I bought my M Coupe in Dec 1999 for £29995 with 10,500 miles on the clock the car being 10 months old.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by exdos View Post
        I agree that it is very expensive.

        Take the E-Type Jag as an example of a classic car. They were in production from 1961 to 1974 in a few different Marks and a total of over 70,000 of them were made, they sold new for around £3,500 (averageish). Looking on Pistonheads today, the cheapest one presently for sale is £25,500 and the most expensive is £85,750. Since the majority of cars that are made depreciate like mad and then ultimately get scrapped, it could be argued that all existing E-Type Jags that are for sale now are grossly over-priced. At what point in time did E-Type Jags start selling for MORE than their original purchase price? Is that the point in time when a car becomes a "classic"?
        .
        £3,500 in 1970 in today's money is about £40,000 so they've not really all appreciated but just kept their value, some technically lost, some have gained some value. I think it's harder to quantify over these longer periods unless it's prices like rare Ferraris that sell for millions etc. Certinaly if you bought the car in 1970 it will have cost a fair bit to run for 40 years, so in reality it's definitely not appreciated as it'll have had 40 years running costs to boot!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by c_w View Post
          £3,500 in 1970 in today's money is about £40,000 so they've not really all appreciated but just kept their value, some technically lost, some have gained some value. I think it's harder to quantify over these longer periods unless it's prices like rare Ferraris that sell for millions etc. Certinaly if you bought the car in 1970 it will have cost a fair bit to run for 40 years, so in reality it's definitely not appreciated as it'll have had 40 years running costs to boot!
          ...and if you'd put that money into a house.....

          Not worth thinking about!

          Interestingly I was leafing through a 1994 Classic & Sportscar issue at the weekend. If you'd bought an F40 then you would have just about stood still on price by now. If you'd bought a Daytona it would have doubled. Ditto a Dino. There was a DB5 for £30k and a Miura at £40k!

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          • #20
            if they have the standard very low mileage s54 at £29995
            and Steve's modified s54 for sale at ?? similar money perhaps
            which will sell first??

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dave p View Post
              if they have the standard very low mileage s54 at £29995
              and Steve's modified s54 for sale at ?? similar money perhaps
              which will sell first??
              I think it will be interesting to see if they do indeed keep my car as is, or return a lot of it to OE, I can see them keeping the ACS stuff, but maybe changing the rest back to OE.
              Tim from hexagon is picking the car up at the weekend, I'll have a chat to see what their intensions are.
              Last edited by steve1; 19-02-2011, 05:24 PM.
              2002 phoenix yellow. "V3RY M" lives on, but on another beast.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by c_w View Post
                £3,500 in 1970 in today's money is about £40,000 so they've not really all appreciated but just kept their value, some technically lost, some have gained some value. I think it's harder to quantify over these longer periods unless it's prices like rare Ferraris that sell for millions etc. Certinaly if you bought the car in 1970 it will have cost a fair bit to run for 40 years, so in reality it's definitely not appreciated as it'll have had 40 years running costs to boot!
                This is the thing people always miss. They just see a lower price and a higher price.

                I remember about a year ago 2 e30 m3s turning up in a garage basically unused.

                I can't remember what they sold for but it was more than the new cost in terms of a number but not in terms of value. Everyone was saying what a good investment etc. It wasn't. They had lost money if you took into account inflation, and then you had to add on the cost of storage and any associated insurance etc. So they had actually lost a fair amount of money.

                I you then took into account how much money that value could have accrued in an bank account of some sort then its even worse.
                Ex 2001 S54
                New cars:
                Lotus Carlton
                350Z

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MGR View Post
                  This is the thing people always miss. They just see a lower price and a higher price.

                  I remember about a year ago 2 e30 m3s turning up in a garage basically unused.

                  I can't remember what they sold for but it was more than the new cost in terms of a number but not in terms of value. Everyone was saying what a good investment etc. It wasn't. They had lost money if you took into account inflation, and then you had to add on the cost of storage and any associated insurance etc. So they had actually lost a fair amount of money.

                  I you then took into account how much money that value could have accrued in an bank account of some sort then its even worse.
                  That's usually the way. But I think we're in a bit of a car bubble at the moment, auction prices are very strong and top end collectors cars are breaking new records. If you can double your money in 3 years (like my mate has done with his F40) then you're onto a winner - especially when you consider that most cars depreciate!

                  I don't think Nick Mason has done too badly with his £3k 250GTO either.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by c_w View Post
                    £3,500 in 1970 in today's money is about £40,000 so they've not really all appreciated but just kept their value, some technically lost, some have gained some value. I think it's harder to quantify over these longer periods unless it's prices like rare Ferraris that sell for millions etc. Certinaly if you bought the car in 1970 it will have cost a fair bit to run for 40 years, so in reality it's definitely not appreciated as it'll have had 40 years running costs to boot!
                    We had MEGA inflation from the 1960s until the mid 1990s, so a car that has managed to keep pace anywhere near to today's values has done very well, when you compare with most cars that depreciate 100% in a relatively short time. Most cars from the 1960-70s rusted away to nothing (as will E-types) and rarely saw their 10th "birthday". Sure, there will be a big cost in maintaining and restoring something like an E-Type, but nearly all good hobbies cost lots of money.
                    /// Exdos ///
                    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MGR View Post

                      I you then took into account how much money that value could have accrued in an bank account of some sort then its even worse.
                      It depends upon the particular years. Money in the bank/building society used to be a decent investment when interest rates were higher than inflation, but investment since the late 1990s has been generally very poor, especially stockmarket related investments where the FTSE 100 is presently around 15% LESS than it was in on 1st January 2000. Ordinary savings accounts are presently paying interest rates which are all below the rate of inflation.

                      If anyone has made money out of ISAs then they're doing bloody well!
                      /// Exdos ///
                      "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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                      • #26
                        in 1978 an appartament same my parent's hourse cost around 30,000 milions of lire,an ferrari 328 probabily cost the same or less...
                        now an 458 italia cost around 200k now an same appartament cost around 700k euro!
                        Whitout consider can also receive the rent for 32 years for the appartament...
                        The car are the best way to lost money imho..
                        Last edited by fastdrive; 17-02-2011, 02:21 PM.
                        www.fastdrive.org
                        S50 black/black-red In Rome
                        Front BBK Stoptech Red+Eibach Sway Bars+Kw Clubsport Whit Camber plates+Weichers Strutbar+Agk Urethane front Silent Block & differential Bushing+Tuner Motorposrt Alluminium Rear Mount+Hamann Exaust

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by exdos View Post
                          We had MEGA inflation from the 1960s until the mid 1990s, so a car that has managed to keep pace anywhere near to today's values has done very well, when you compare with most cars that depreciate 100% in a relatively short time. Most cars from the 1960-70s rusted away to nothing (as will E-types) and rarely saw their 10th "birthday". Sure, there will be a big cost in maintaining and restoring something like an E-Type, but nearly all good hobbies cost lots of money.
                          I agree entirely, cars cost us lots of money

                          What W1234 has said about a mate doubling his money in 3 years is real money making in cars IMO - 3 years isn't enough to really alter the value of money so it's a real gain. I think buying the latest megasupercar that is sought after in the short-term with a huge waiting list is a way to make a few k for nothing but it takes a lot of money and risk.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by c_w View Post

                            What W1234 has said about a mate doubling his money in 3 years is real money making in cars IMO - 3 years isn't enough to really alter the value of money so it's a real gain. I think buying the latest megasupercar that is sought after in the short-term with a huge waiting list is a way to make a few k for nothing but it takes a lot of money and risk.
                            The people who always make money (lots) out of "tangible assets" are the dealers: i.e. car dealers, art dealers, antique dealers and horse dealers etc. They are cold, calculating and dispassionate about their stock and their customers are entirely the opposite and are driven by "ownership" so happy to pay through the nose for what they want. Dealers are invariably good at locating stuff that customers can't find themselves, and charge a premium for finding it.
                            /// Exdos ///
                            "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by exdos View Post
                              The people who always make money (lots) out of "tangible assets" are the dealers: i.e. car dealers, art dealers, antique dealers and horse dealers etc. They are cold, calculating and dispassionate about their stock and their customers are entirely the opposite and are driven by "ownership" so happy to pay through the nose for what they want. Dealers are invariably good at locating stuff that customers can't find themselves, and charge a premium for finding it.
                              You are so right, the one thing that I can't get my head around is that someone didn't snap this up,( I certainly haven't let them have it for any less than I would have taken from a private buyer ), now all that's going to happen is it will be beyond most peoples pockets, and it will probably go to someone that doesn't really give a sh*t about what they've bought, I could be wrong of course.
                              2002 phoenix yellow. "V3RY M" lives on, but on another beast.

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                              • #30
                                both PY cars are still showing as for sale on PistonHeads today?

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