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Bit of a nightmare! (my boot floor story)

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  • Bit of a nightmare! (my boot floor story)

    I havent posted a great deal lately, and here is mostly why.

    Not long has it been, since I had a rear end knocking noise, which was checked out by my regular mechanic, and correctly diagnosed to be the top mounts.
    These were replaced and made massive difference (mostly audible difference)

    After this work was done, another creaking/squeaking noise became apparent.

    Seems that since the knocking had been silenced, a different quieter (but more annoying) noise had been discovered, and was seriously doing my head in!

    I never got the time to check it out properly myself, only until not long ago.

    I had parked up the car since Gaydon, due to being quite busy with other things (other cars!)

    So managed to get the car out of my friends garage, and home.
    Then got to work stripping out the boot interior.
    To my surprise, it was one of my worst expectations of findings.
    I spotted a small tearing on the passengers side of the boot floor.

    Sure you can imagine how pi**ed I was at this unexpected discovery

    It was worse than what I was hoping, I thought there was just some loose crap under the boot interior and maybe it would have needed hoovering out or something. Ha! WRONG! Massively wrong!!!

    Never imagined I could have had a busted boot floor problem, even after pm'ing and emailing a few members off here asking for help on what to look for (thanks to those peeps that helped, youll know who you are by how many pm's in your inbox are from me, lol)
    I was still confident the boot floor wouldnt be affected, although there was something in the back of my mind telling me not to jump too quick at dropping that possibility.

    The tear was tiny in comparison to some ive seen on here and the roadster forum.

    Still, I was totally gutted to find it, no matter what the size of it was.

    I made initial contact with BMW, who at first said they would sort it out, I was told to await reply for them get back to me with arrangements.
    Then after a bit of waiting, they emailed a response which said "f**k off, your car is too old" in the nicest possible way.

    (Mine is a 1999 T reg)

    Great customer services, right?
    Oh well, was worth a try, but obviously I was still not happy with the outcome.

    My thoughts were of getting reinforcement work carried out, even if BMW did stick to doing their replacement, as a few people have mentioned the BMW repair is to redo the floor in exactly the same way, as it was from new. That leads me to think that 10/11yrs down the line, its likely it will happen again, and its not something id like to experience again, or be happy with selling on to someone else to deal with. BMW dont seem to correct the problem, they just replicate the area to how it was before it broke.

    So anyway not to drag on!... I was quick to get on with ringing around a few garages who I thought were confident/competent in carrying out the works to rectify the damage, and in turn strengthen the areas of weakness.

    I got a couple of replies, some not very promising, even from garages that were recommended to me for this type of work.
    I didnt want to take it somewhere that I didnt think could do the job.
    Some of the replies I had were not very confidence inspiring!

    Whilst awaiting quotes or replies back from the remainder of places I had emailed/phoned, I got talking to an associate of a relative, he mentioned that there is a guy who does chassis/body repairs (welding etc)
    He used to race old Lotus Esprits, and build race cars + does classic car restorations etc.
    I also know he has carried out some huge accident damage repairs to vehicles which have been written off and not repaired by insurers etc.
    Ive seen the before and after results, and they are trully amazing.

    The guy is known by a few of my friends and family, plus he is local, infact he is a few doors away from one of my mechanic friends.

    I got on the phone to him, and he said just bring it down so I can see it, so off I went to him for inspection.

    Left it with him for a while, and he phoned me back to say come in and have a look at it properly with everything removed.

    He explained the extent of the damage was only the crack, and I was pretty lucky to have found it when I did (glad I knew about this problem, most help came from a few people on here, and also from reading threads on here and roadster forum!!!)

    After a brief discussion about his intended plan of action and what exactly to do, he explained to me he would cut a part of the boot floor out, and weld in a custom made piece of steel tubing, to strengthen the area (welded underneath the cutout area, so will not be visually noticeable after repair is complete)
    Then the cut out area would have a panel rewelded over the top (so that it looks normal once again) after all this has been done, it would be smoothed, resealed, soundproofed/painted to a good finish.

    After visiting the garage a few days on from dropping it in, I got to see the car with the boot floor cut apart, and tubing being welded in. I took some pics so I have evidence of the works being done, and let the man crack on with the job in hand.

    Upon getting home that evening, I sent an email to Randy Forbes who is in America (on the US forums, well known for boot floor reinforcements and repairs) Was hoping for some kind of approval.
    Not knowing what type of reply I would get, he said the following:

    That's not completely unlike something I'd do, I'm just a little neater about it!

    My process is to hide an I-beam inside the hollow crossmember to reinforce the trunkfloor, your guy is doing it with a steel tube. If he didn't strengthen the trunkfloor, the simple welding of the crack(s) and spotwelds would soon fail again, so it was more necessary than you thought.

    As long as he follows through with the cosmetic work, you shouldn't have to worry about it again.


    I had sent him a few pictures of before, and mid-works being carried out (see below for all pics)
    As you can see, it looks a bit messy during job being done, so they probably werent the best of pics to send, but im glad I used those ones now.

    I was happy to receive a reply like that, as with me not being massively technically minded, it filled me with a bit of confidence knowing the job was being done in a more than satisfactory way.

    Picked it up not long after (only took a couple of days in total) the overall job finished shot is below.

    ===============================================

    All the pics are below.
    They are clickable for viewing in larger size.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    These are of the crack found (it was a little longer under the soundproofing, but not by a great deal than can be seen in these pics)



    ------------------------------------------------------------

    These are the pics I sent to Randy, I guess I could have sent a few others too but wanted an honest opinion, and thats what I got




    ------------------------------------------------------------

    The original crack area close up after repair and paint (still wet)



    An overall shot of the boot floor area after being repaired and painted
    (paint was not fully hardened, and these areas are will be left open to air for a few days)



    ------------------------------------------------------------

    So theres my boot floor story.

    The damage caused by the weak areas that were on my car, arent as bad as some other examples that ive seen, so maybe not so interesting to read for some of you.

    I figured there arent any/many individual threads up about this problem, so would be good to let others know that this is still something to look out for, and it does need help wherever possible to do so.

    In my opinion, id recommend any MC owners to have some form of strengthening done before any issues arise (especially those that are driven hard/tracked/modified with stiffer suspensions, performance upgrades etc)
    Once damage spreads, it can only get worse.
    Its good to tackle it before it takes serious affect
    So glad I caught mine in time!!!

    Sorry if its a long thread, im hoping it makes people more aware of the issue, as I havent seen much posted about it recently.

    With most cars approaching 10yrs+ now, those of you whos cars are under 10 better get checking straight away, and if you find any damage, get them into BMW ASAP with a massive disappointing/complaining/moaning letter/email or phone call if you are wanting any repairs done by them.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    All in all, im confident my car has been repaired to a good standard.

    Any comments or input on this would be good (positive or negative)
    Last edited by indy; 23-09-2010, 09:39 PM.

    Click here to email me

  • #2
    Informative read Indy, good work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just to add, the repair by BMW is not just a replacement boot floor, they do also add in a re-enforcement as you've done here.

      Comment


      • #4
        glad its sorted

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for sharing your experience Indy.

          As stated above the BMW repair is not a stright replacement but involves a thicker (stronger) diff bracket and reinforcement to the cross member and welds ;-)

          The basic principle is the same though as you have had done

          To be honest IMHO yours was towards the more extreme side of the problem as most can be spotted much earlier than the side seam cracking by the initial spot welds that break and rust ie before the seam breaks.

          Out of interest was your diff bracket OK as that is often an area of failure as well (and why BMW replace it with a revised stronger bracket). Its not uncommon for the boot to fail without the bracket but the worry is by strengthening the cross member you put even more stress onto the diff bracket and hence why it is usually replaced with a stronger unit (thats what randy does as well). Just wantd to make sure you were aware of that as there is no indication in your thread that this was done so worth keeping an eye on it ?

          The other obvious question for people who may be faced with this type of work is what was the cost ?
          VIDEO or Journal

          Comment


          • #6
            Good to see you have got it sorted

            I have to say I inspect mine every month, just to be on the safe side

            Comment


            • #7
              My poor old car!

              Glad its sorted though.

              As you know, this was something that i checked pretty much every week but it is a shame this is turning out to be more of a BMW design feature than a rare issue.

              BMW should be consistent in their approach to fixing it as they cannot fix some cars and not others.

              I do agree that it is probably wise to decline to fix older cars as people will start bringing in anything and everything but they cannot agree to fix some and not others.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rags View Post
                BMW should be consistent in their approach to fixing it as they cannot fix some cars and not others.
                On boot floors they only go up to 10 years for goodwill
                On other parts they only go up to 6 years which is why they would not replace my rear beam which had also cracked

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by guido View Post
                  Informative read Indy, good work.
                  cheers guy, glad its giving some a good read.
                  werent sure if i was just blabbing on (probably was too lol) or being informative!

                  Originally posted by z3mcouperacer View Post
                  Just to add, the repair by BMW is not just a replacement boot floor, they do also add in a re-enforcement as you've done here.
                  i wasnt aware of this, i dont recall reading a thread/post mentioning this, unless i read one or more stating that they didnt reinforce, then just discounted all others thinking that was the norm!

                  Originally posted by dave p View Post
                  glad its sorted
                  me too but hasnt cured every squeak im still trying my hardest to fix all, the trims are not 100% silent yet

                  Originally posted by Jonttt View Post
                  Thanks for sharing your experience Indy.

                  As stated above the BMW repair is not a stright replacement but involves a thicker (stronger) diff bracket and reinforcement to the cross member and welds ;-)

                  The basic principle is the same though as you have had done

                  To be honest IMHO yours was towards the more extreme side of the problem as most can be spotted much earlier than the side seam cracking by the initial spot welds that break and rust ie before the seam breaks.

                  Out of interest was your diff bracket OK as that is often an area of failure as well (and why BMW replace it with a revised stronger bracket). Its not uncommon for the boot to fail without the bracket but the worry is by strengthening the cross member you put even more stress onto the diff bracket and hence why it is usually replaced with a stronger unit (thats what randy does as well). Just wantd to make sure you were aware of that as there is no indication in your thread that this was done so worth keeping an eye on it ?

                  The other obvious question for people who may be faced with this type of work is what was the cost ?
                  cheers jonttt, as said above i wasnt aware BMW did strengthen anything.
                  i have read about the stronger diff brackets etc, but i thought this was an afterfit part, didnt realise BMW add it in to the goodwill repairs.

                  do they carry out the same repair method for every car under the goodwill thing, or is it just some? and maybe not others? (probably different for every garage that carries out the rectification works)

                  with regards to costs, i doubt any 2 same garages would quote the same amount for repairs.
                  if anyone wants to know the costs or is wanting to know the details of where the work was carried out, send me a pm and i will give you the details (as one person has already requested)

                  my diff bracket is actually fine, there was one small very tiny crack/fractured area spotted for the underside of the boot floor, and this was corrected during the works, but by the time id arrived to snap pics the car was off the ramp!

                  Originally posted by Neil M
                  That was going to be my enquiry, to have a rough idea of required budget.

                  I'm also interested in wether you've had any problems with the diff bracket?

                  A really good write up and a worthwhile read, thanks for sharing Indy

                  MODS - may I suggest that this thread is added to te Knowlegebase as it is the first detailed thread on the subject.
                  as above Neil

                  Originally posted by lowvdub View Post
                  Good to see you have got it sorted

                  I have to say I inspect mine every month, just to be on the safe side
                  ha! you know how annoyed i was to hear those noises as you know how much of a fuss i was making over it

                  i was sure it wasnt just me imagining things!!! its so hard to explain to someone else, even another owner, but when you own a car yourself, you know of all the ins and outs of it. every problem, every nook and cranny LOL!

                  same as we discussed

                  Originally posted by Rags View Post
                  My poor old car!

                  Glad its sorted though.

                  As you know, this was something that i checked pretty much every week but it is a shame this is turning out to be more of a BMW design feature than a rare issue.

                  BMW should be consistent in their approach to fixing it as they cannot fix some cars and not others.

                  I do agree that it is probably wise to decline to fix older cars as people will start bringing in anything and everything but they cannot agree to fix some and not others.
                  as you can guess i dont agree with the goodwill decline.
                  if they sorted one car, they should sort them all as there is clearly a fault within the original manufacture.
                  if you look up in america, there were similar failures on the E46's, and a lawsuit was filed which ended up in the consumers favour. unfortunately over here we dont have as many MC's with the problem (due to there not being many!) so we cant do a similar thing, loud enough for BMW to listen/understand (or read that as CARE )

                  Originally posted by z3mcouperacer View Post
                  On boot floors they only go up to 10 years for goodwill
                  On other parts they only go up to 6 years which is why they would not replace my rear beam which had also cracked
                  bit of a pisstake really though isnt it, if you were aware that most/all MC's that are now 10yrs old, are prone to a boot floor, diff, subframe mounting failure, how would you feel about buying one?

                  i wouldnt be very positive about going out and viewing a car, with a potential drastic failure on its way, especially if its priced the same as others, and the means to inspect the car properly arent available.

                  and on top of that (this comment isnt aimed at you or anyone in particular its just a view)

                  my car is actually for sale, and ive been putting off the sale for more than one reason (one reason was actually because of the noises i could hear, i didnt want anyone coming to see it until i was sure things were sorted properly, werent confident enough to sell the car) and the other reason was because i didnt actually have the car with me! was parked miles away from home as didnt have space for it at the time.

                  kind of unfair on the potential buyers, but id rather fix a problem than rip someone off, and then have a comeback later on.

                  Click here to email me

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    also another thing which i failed to mention, there are no recommended places to get this work done, every bodyshop i asked seemed like they were desperate for the work, but had no idea of what they were going to do to it, when i asked what would you do in a situation like this, they were very vague on descriptions (sounded like they didnt know what to do) maybe they needed to see the car beforehand, but i wouldnt just give it to someone who is going to go around doing the job, by guessing.

                    if they get it wrong, i doubt they will be bothered to do it again if there was a complaint about the works done.

                    so if anyone is going to get this strengthening/repair work done, make sure you are confident that the person butchering up your car (thats what it looked like during job ) is doing it properly

                    it one of those jobs, where you should get it right the first time and not have to come back to doing it again.

                    i can provide details of the place where i got the work done on my car, on request, anyone that needs this work done, feel free to pm me for the details. ill be happy to help.

                    i think the pricing for the job on my specific car was well worth it.

                    i was quoted a price, and the final works carried out ended up being more than discussed/originally quoted (but i was shown and explained exactly what extra was needed, than originally told, so was happy with what i was told)

                    for this reason i wont post any details regarding price (but im willing to discuss with anyone if asked) as different cars would need a different amount of works doing, so dont want to give anyone the wrong idea by quoting a price, then them comparing a job they have done, to one ive had done and it being different. these jobs arent fixed price, it comes down to labour (which is the most part of the cost) materials isnt a great deal, and nor is paint, so the amount of time taken to work on each car would be the main factor to consider.

                    Click here to email me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Darren Wood will undertake these repairs,

                      http://www.darren-wood.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They put in extra welds, also i believe the diff carrier is stronger, BMW confirmed that the failure should never happen again.

                        I did have the repair sheet somewhere, they left it in the car when i picked it up. It covered the whole boot floor being replaced, it included the extra metal that needed welding in as you have done.

                        I cant see why anyone who is worried about couldn't get it done for around £500 including the diff carrier, the material costs on the job are less than £50. Im also pretty sure if someone wanted to have this done they could get the repair sheet from BMW, it's just an internal download.

                        The thing with BMW goodwill is that it is just that, they are under no obligation to do anything, and when you think about the costs of the job (£5k) in some cases thats half the value of the car, they have to draw the line somewhere.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by indy View Post
                          if you look up in america, there were similar failures on the E46's, and a lawsuit was filed which ended up in the consumers favour.
                          see here: www.e46subframeclassactionsettlement.com

                          what a name for a website

                          Originally posted by z3mcouperacer View Post
                          They put in extra welds, also i believe the diff carrier is stronger, BMW confirmed that the failure should never happen again.

                          I did have the repair sheet somewhere, they left it in the car when i picked it up. It covered the whole boot floor being replaced, it included the extra metal that needed welding in as you have done.

                          I cant see why anyone who is worried about couldn't get it done for around £500 including the diff carrier, the material costs on the job are less than £50. Im also pretty sure if someone wanted to have this done they could get the repair sheet from BMW, it's just an internal download.

                          The thing with BMW goodwill is that it is just that, they are under no obligation to do anything, and when you think about the costs of the job (£5k) in some cases thats half the value of the car, they have to draw the line somewhere.
                          if you could scan the repair details up, that would be good.
                          it was something else i failed to find online, and even after asking people who had it done.

                          Click here to email me

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by indy View Post
                            see here: www.e46subframeclassactionsettlement.com

                            what a name for a website



                            if you could scan the repair details up, that would be good.
                            it was something else i failed to find online, and even after asking people who had it done.
                            I check my 330i every few months, but ive got another few years on that before my time runs out.

                            Ill see if i still have it, i think i might of chucked it though. But as i said if you asked a local dealer to print it off im sure they would, or failing that customer service could help.

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                            • #15
                              indy

                              post up the one i gave you
                              [GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY ---- GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL

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