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  • Zmc v m3

    Hi all,

    This is my second post on the forum. Just want some advise.

    I've owned quite a few fast BMW's. I've owned a few M cars, however the ZMC seems to be a sluggish in comparison to the E46 M3. I've drive two ZMC's now and they both didnt quite have the umph my M3's had. Is there something I'm missing here.

    I do adore the looks of the Z, but the drive makes me think it may not be the car for me.

    Any thoughts and comparisons.

  • #2
    Assume the M Coupes are the S50? The E46 M3 does have more power, and the S54 may feel more responsive due to drive by wire. The other reason is likely the gearing, the M3 has a 6-speed gearbox, with ratios 1-5 being the same as the Coupe, but the diff is lower on the E46 M3 (3.64). Even with the larger overal wheels/tyres the gearing is lower for each gear.

    I've run against many M3s on trackdays and there isn't anything in it, but throttle response/gearing can make a difference to how it feels.

    I run a 3.46 diff on mine and it makes it feel a lot nicer to drive.

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    • #3
      The S54 has the E46 M3 engine (plus fly by wire etc), the S50 has the E36 M3 engine. Which are you comparing?
      S54 Titan Silver metallic. Black leather, most factory options including sunroof, Becker Cascade and Becker Silverstone changer.

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      • #4
        Ah that's interesting. Something to look into.

        Is the sticking throttle cable an issue on the S50's, I had this in my 2.8 and it transformed the car once done.

        It's an M car, I'm sure with a good service, throttle body clean, MAF clean and possibly a panel filter it would make a nice difference to the drive.

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        • #5
          I wouldn't say it's a sticking throttle cable issue, but it is common for them to go out of adjustment. On the test drive of mine it felt ok but not that quick and soon realised I wasn't getting full throttle opening.

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          • #6
            Ian I'm comparing the S50.

            Cw, I tried full throttle I wasn't blown away. Does the car feel sluggish with a passenger sat in the car, compared to solo. I know it might make a small difference.

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            • #7
              I had a S50 MR in the late 90's. It was a very different drive to the S54 MC (bought in 2005), but some (maybe much) of the difference will be down to the fixed roof.

              Worth trying a S54 MC if you can to compare with your E46 M3 and S50 MC.

              Don't think I have seen a direct driving/real world comparison between the S50 and S54, which would be most interesting. We know the technical differences quite well.
              S54 Titan Silver metallic. Black leather, most factory options including sunroof, Becker Cascade and Becker Silverstone changer.

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              • #8
                Also, remember that the MC S54 "only" has 325bhp (S50 has 321bhp) whereas the E46 M3 has the full 343bhp in its S54 engine. I would guess that when the MC took the S54 unit it was thought that 325bhp was sufficient whereas for the more mainstream M3, 325bhp would not have been seen as enough of a power hike for a whole new M3 over the E36 Evo (and to compensate for the added weight of the E46 too of course).
                S54 Black / Imola. S50 Titan / Black. And some bits from Stuttgart.

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                • #9
                  Ray I think there must have been an issue with the cars
                  I had an e46 m3 prior to my coupe and have raced a few m3s since
                  I would say he coupe is quicker by a fair bi the coupe is a lot lighter too
                  [GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY ---- GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL

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                  • #10
                    I don't think you can make a direct comparison between a Z3MC (S50) and an E46 M3, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

                    As already been mentioned in the above posts power output, gearing, gearbox, wheel size etc make the characteristics of the vehicles totally different in performance delivery and handling. It could be that the Z3MCs that Ray43 drove might have been a bit off tune, but I think he is looking for equal performance which isn't possible if these two cars are in standard tune. Ray would be better off to trying out a well fettled car from one of the lads on here if they would let him.

                    I owned my first 2000 Z3MC (S50) for over 4 years, then I when for a 2003 E46 M3 for 3 years before returning to another 2000 Z3MC (S50) now owned for over 4 years. The Z3MCs were identical spec just that the second was 6 months newer, so I think I'm able to give an opinion on the cars.

                    The E46 M3 was a great car, IMO a tad faster than the Z3MC, with better brakes, I enjoyed driving but it was too civilised for me. The MC is much more of an old style car no driver aids, has cable throttle, giving a seat of the pants driving experience. With a bit of tuning it would most likely out perform the M3 as some the owners on here will testify.

                    To me it’s not about the ultimate performance and how it compares to another BMW. I just like them for what they are after seeing a Cosmos Black one at Goodwood back in 1999 on drivers’ day, it looked brilliant. I wanted to own one!!!

                    Just my thoughts.
                    Pete C

                    2000 Z3M Coupe - Cosmos Black Metallic/Black interior. 805 of 821 RHD built

                    Previous BMWs

                    2003 E46 M3 6 speed manual - Carbon Black/Black interior.
                    2000 Z3M Coupe - Cosmos Black Metallic/Black interior. 692 of 821 RHD built
                    1986 M635
                    1985 E28 M5
                    1983 E28 528i Alpina

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                    • #11
                      I think that's a good summary, the E46 M3 is technically more capable and is the faster car, but only by a tad. A 3.64 ratio diff and 6 speed gearbox would transform the character of the car, and it's a shame BMW had to compromise on the gearing/diff ratio by pretending the 6-speed wouldn't fit.

                      The flip side is also the S50 in particularly is a moody engine IMO, sometimes mine feels a little sluggish (and with a coupe with standard gearing being a bit long and drawn out, it can make it a feel more so), then another day feels lightning fast/responsive.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by c_w View Post
                        I think that's a good summary, the E46 M3 is technically more capable and is the faster car, but only by a tad.
                        Funny, I've not had a single standard E46 M3 keep up with the M Coupe, and there's usually quite a bit of difference when pulling away from them.

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                        • #13
                          The difference is all down to the gearing and axle ratio. I change ratios often in both the Mustang and (not so often) the Cobra - going from, say, 3.07 to 3.31 is like night and day. The MC needs longer gearing because it's missing an overdriven top. 5th in both the MC and the 330i, with which it shares the gearbox, is direct.

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                          • #14
                            Guido is yours an S50 or the S54.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by guido View Post
                              Funny, I've not had a single standard E46 M3 keep up with the M Coupe, and there's usually quite a bit of difference when pulling away from them.
                              I can agree with this. I had an M3 chase me on a straight and there was no doubt at all I was pulling away. We were both one up, so either:

                              - I had a heavier right foot
                              - My nice shiny Schnitzers actually do more than save a few kg's
                              - There's either nothing between them in real driving or the MC is a little faster

                              Or a mixture of all of the above.

                              What I can say with certainty though, is that the MC experience is more intense than the M3. Maybe due to the smaller cabin and overall proportions I guess.

                              I'd be very pleased to have a nice LSB E46 though. Only as well as the MC mind, never instead of.
                              Last edited by Seca Blue; 19-10-2017, 06:43 PM.
                              S54 Seca Blue - ACS Short shift and Exhaust. Luverly.

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