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  • #46
    (nothing to add, but I am enjoying this )
    Not actually in the least bit fat

    2000 S50 Titanium Silver / Black
    ACS Suspension, Exhaust & Type III Wheels
    Simota carbon air intake | Strong Strut Front Brace

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    • #47
      Since I kind of started some of this off I also feel I should comment on this....

      Originally posted by MattH3764 View Post
      oil is clearly the lifeblood of the engine.
      Whilst I agree that the best oil, changed at the right intervals (whatever they may be!!) is the best thing to do, people dont get so hooked up on coolant.

      Coolant is often designed for life now so will people start changing that every few years, "just in case"?! In our cars this is every few years but people dont start changing this more often. I know the properties of coolant probably dont change like oil but its a similar argument about the lifeblood of the engine.
      2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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      • #48
        I think the newer G12 coolants last longer, main thing with coolant is that it remains clean and doesn't freeze - I wouldn't class it as important as oil in the engine. I would rank brake fluid higher than coolant in the to-change list.

        Funnily enough it's strange why BMW claim "lifetime" oil in the gearbox when changing it improves the gearshift massively and what oil can really last forever under stressful situations such as a gearboxes where shear loadings can be massive.

        Originally posted by exdos View Post
        So why didn't you simply write that rather than stating I was being pedantic?
        'cos we (I) wasn't discussing the properties of just 10/60 or the fact it can withstand higher temps that other oils can't. But with regards to the selected Millers oil quote; they don't specify how long it will tolerate up to 150 OR that after that heat cycle what it will be like. I.e. after a race where it comfortable performed to 135degrees+ (as they suggest it can), what about using it again at those temps on another race/trackday, who knows. If it did withstand it, the average race car engine would never see an oil change.

        Full synthetic oils last longer than semi-synthetics or mineral oils, so although they may cost more in the first place, a full synthetic can work out as a cheaper option in the log run. Many cars specify the use of full synthetic long-life oils and these may last over 20000 miles or up to 24 months.

        If the car is used on track, the oil is subjected to far harsher conditions than motorway use. That may mean that a good track oil will have broken down sufficiently to need changing after 10 hours of use, whereas the same oil would be good for over 100 hours of use on motorways. Short journeys are very hard on the oil as it does not get the chance to get warm and flow properly as well as acceleration and deceleration making the engine work harder. Motorway use is the easiest condition for oil, the speeds are fairly consistent and rarely push the engine hard, there is plenty of air flow to help cool the engine and the oil has a chance to get up to temperature and flow properly.
        The fact is I wouldn't want a performance car running 10-15k+ on the same oil!
        Last edited by c_w; 04-11-2011, 12:36 PM.

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        • #49
          Good thread ! Responses below.

          Originally posted by Spooks View Post
          Since I kind of started some of this off I also feel I should comment on this....

          Whilst I agree that the best oil, changed at the right intervals (whatever they may be!!) is the best thing to do, people dont get so hooked up on coolant.

          Coolant is often designed for life now so will people start changing that every few years, "just in case"?! In our cars this is every few years but people dont start changing this more often. I know the properties of coolant probably dont change like oil but its a similar argument about the lifeblood of the engine.
          The reason I am less bothered about coolant is that I can see from the two temp gauges how well my engine is being cooled. I cannot see from any gauge the extent to which the oil is ageing, and maybe getting too thin, and maybe becoming acidic and eating into the bearing shells. But I do accept that coolant might degrade and lead to other issues like corrosion, so I agree with you on that but I still see something special about oil.


          Originally posted by c_w View Post
          Yes, I wouldn't veer away from the better sythentic oils such as the Edge 10/60 for M or Fuchs/Silkolenne Pro-S. Having said that I have read many times of owners of E36 M3s etc being told by their independent, and sometimes even dealer, has put Magnatec 10/40 in etc, which is probably fine in reality but perhaps not as good as the fully sythentics.
          Originally posted by ragerover View Post
          dont do it matt if you do it yourself your off setting the price of the oil
          buy from the oil man its cheaper

          ps use genuine filters only
          I worded this poorly. I should have said "possibly slightly cheaper but still synthetic oil thats not as heavy as Castrol 10w60". I dont know why I said cost was the major consideration, because it isnt. My point was that without track work I dont see high enough temps to justify the 10w60.


          Originally posted by exdos View Post
          If you are unconvinced you need Castrol 10W-60 oil, on what facts are you basing your opinion that more frequent oil changes are better than those determined by BMW's service indicator system where Castrol 10w-60 is used?

          I agree with all the old adages that "oil is cheaper than metal" and that "prevention is better than cure" but I also think that BMW must have spent a fortune in running engines to destruction, analysing engine oil from a host of different running scenarios etc. in arriving at the appropriate service intervals, provided that the owner uses the same make and grade of engine oil that BMW has used for all its testing.

          It's far better to give a lightly used car a 20 mile run, say, fortnightly, where the car is properly warmed up to full running temperature and a bi-annual oil change, than to leave it standing for months on end with an oil change every 6 months.
          I'm not basing it on any facts or trying to convince anyone to do it my way, just stating a view and sorry if I implied otherwise. What I was trying to say is that I think oil degrades with time and new oil performs relatively better than older oil. I therefore find the logic compelling that the more often you change the oil, the more new it is on average and the better your engine is lubricated. I strongly suspect oil degrades over time rather than suddenly hits the wall of acceptability so its clearly a matter of individual judgements how often to change it.

          I fully agree that using a car regularly and properly warming it up is better than storage. My point is that if all else is equal, I would rather the oil in my car was newer than older - so even if I was using it regularly I would still prefer to change the oil more often than less often. But there's clearly a balance to be struck - taking my view to extremes one would change the oil before every journey and I doubt anyone does that.

          And on the storage point I would rather store an older car with limited rust protection for the winter than take it out on salty roads, even if the storage was worse for the engine than driving it frequently. But when I do store I store with clean oil and then use that oil in the next driving season.

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          • #50
            I'm not basing it on any facts or trying to convince anyone to do it my way, just stating a view and sorry if I implied otherwise. What I was trying to say is that I think oil degrades with time and new oil performs relatively better than older oil. I therefore find the logic compelling that the more often you change the oil, the more new it is on average and the better your engine is lubricated. I strongly suspect oil degrades over time rather than suddenly hits the wall of acceptability so its clearly a matter of individual judgements how often to change it.
            That's my thinking also - plus the fact that I'm sure the OBC does not record oil temps which are a big influencing factor to the longevity of the oil as in the quote from Opie Oils with regards, say trackdays.

            btw I run 5/40 Fuchs (was Silkolene Pro S) over winter.

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            • #51
              Yes, people I know with other cars quite often make the case that something as extreme as a track day would prompt them to change oil much more frequently.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by c_w View Post
                The fact is I wouldn't want a performance car running 10-15k+ on the same oil!
                And neither would I.

                Let's all get a sense of proportion on all of this; the BMW oil service light system is there for your car in un-modded OEM condition ONLY and not in race trim for racing. If I were racing a car, fluid changes, and not just engine oil would be done after only a few hours use because I'd want to eke out every advantage I could get from running my car in absolute peak condition because every second counts. Performance cars used on the roads and race cars are subjected to totally different environments.

                With regard to water based engine coolant; not that long ago, you only added "anti-freeze" in winter and ran them with tap water in the summer. It's just as easy to bugger up an engine by not having coolant with enough frost protection, especially with some of the temperatures we saw last winter, as it is by making your engine oil last too long. IMO, the engine oil and water coolant are as equally important as each other. You can at least test the anti-freeze strength of your water coolant whereas you've no idea of the properties of your oil.
                /// Exdos ///
                "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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                • #53
                  I've never heard of running pure water in summer, as the antifreeze lubricates and protects seals and against corrosion. Must have been a long time ago that was practised Use a 50:50 mix and pretty much forget about it.

                  For oil usage I would include trackdays where the oil is subject to higher stresses than those seen on cars only used on the road - we also don't know how accurate the OEM temp gauge is, it could be higher/lower.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by c_w View Post
                    I've never heard of running pure water in summer. Must have been a long time ago that was practised
                    That's probably because you weren't around in the days when all cars were very high-maintenance, RWD, had cross-ply tyres, carburetors, heaters and radios were optional extras and the body work rusted away before your eyes in a few years etc. For some of the members on here, it doesn't seem that long ago! I think young people forget at times us oldies have also been young once, same as you, and been round the block a few times. I'm a bit older than I look

                    I don't think we had gaskets and seals that could permanently keep anti-freeze in the coolant system for longer than 6 months!. Likewise, all engines used to drip oil down the outside if not drink it at the same rate as petrol, radiators used to burst, engines used to overheat, tyres used to burst, fan belts used to break etc. You'd never know if you'd reach your destination without breaking down on the way.
                    Last edited by exdos; 05-11-2011, 08:58 PM.
                    /// Exdos ///
                    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Spooks View Post
                      If you don't mind me asking how much have they quoted for the oil service, brake fluid change and coolant check ? Just pricing mine up at present.
                      For oil service, coolant and brake fluid and standard safety check it's approx £300 at my BMW service centre. She's booked in for Saturday so I hope they don't find anything wrong

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by exdos View Post
                        I don't think we had gaskets and seals that could permanently keep anti-freeze in the coolant system for longer than 6 months!. Likewise, all engines used to drip oil down the outside if not drink it at the same rate as petrol, radiators used to burst, engines used to overheat, tyres used to burst, fan belts used to break etc. You'd never know if you'd reach your destination without breaking down on the way.
                        Indeed - C_W I'll have you know that my 'classic' 1982 Toyota carina (luxury model....) ran for 100k miles on tap water for coolant! (Finely tuned miracle of modern engineering that it was....). It also ran for over 1000 miles with no oil filler cap as it fell off somewhere on the m6 I believe and i didn't notice until the next oil change.... They don't make em like they used to......

                        (If anyone is time warping back from some future reality where i'm trying to sell my car, by the way, I promise I take better care of the MC!!)

                        Anyway, back to this highly entertaining thread :-)

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jms5j View Post
                          She's booked in for Saturday so I hope they don't find anything wrong
                          IF they say you have a small oil leak...check out the following thread:
                          http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31401

                          and a possible solution:
                          http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12303

                          cheers Soma
                          sigpic

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                          • #58
                            Thanks for the info......I'm not at all mechanically minded, in fact it's really my husbands car

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                            • #59
                              Just got back from the oil service and brake fluid change at BMW, £230, not bad. .....
                              They told me the tamper light is on, it's a small red dot by the milage. They said it could have been clocked, but probably not, maybe someone just tried to fit something into the car, but they said it could affect the resale value of the car. I have checked all the service history and the last 9 years MOT and it does not look like it has been clocked. Any opinions?? The last owner had it for 9 years and owns 3 cars so did very little milage.....

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                              • #60
                                the mileage on a car only means sh*t if its backed up by documentation - MOTS, service bills etc. So if you have all that I wouldnt worry.

                                £230 is a big big bill for an oil svc and break fluid change. My advice is find a good independent.

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