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  • New listing Estoril S50 Cat registered

    Rare to see a M Coupe under £20k these days,

    1999 £18995










    https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C978657
    Last edited by Dave P; 29-10-2019, 11:23 AM.

  • #2
    Sold already

    Always surprises me why people buy write off cars but I surpose it’s a cheap way in to an M coupe.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Walk View Post
      Sold already

      Always surprises me why people buy write off cars but I surpose it’s a cheap way in to an M coupe.
      Ive had several and never had a problem. All depends on what the repair was!
      Previous: Silver s50 Mc
      Previous: Yellow s50 Mc
      -------------------------------------------
      Current: Estoril S50 Mc

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Walk View Post
        Sold already

        Always surprises me why people buy write off cars but I surpose it’s a cheap way in to an M coupe.
        It wouldn't bother me either if the repairs were OK. Whether a car is a write off or not is purely economics, not safety.

        Comment


        • #5
          Without been rude you must be mad!!!

          Every panel on these cars is bolt on except the roof.
          Insurance companies don’t write cars off & pay out for the hell of it. To be a write off it must have suffered structural damage, it doesn’t matter who repairs the car it will never be the same as it left the factory, in regards to alignment & safety.
          Then add in the type of people that repair write off’s on a major budget & your asking for trouble. I’ve met loads of them & more recently seen cars with multiple air bags replaced with resistors to trick the system.

          If you buy a write off and repair it properly it will cost more than it would to buy a straight car, that’s the simple maths that the insurance companies do to decide if it worth repairing.

          My biggest gripe with write off’s is everyone is only “light panel damage but insurance company decided not to repair” This is complete b***ox but buyers genuinely believe it.

          Comment


          • #6
            New listing cat c

            Mine was a cat d due to rear quarter damage in 2000,when i replaced the two rear quarters in 2017 i noticed that one of the panells was a different shade on the underside.apart from this there were no signs of any other work.i also have a certificate from a specialist company from 2001 who fully inspect such vehicles and gave it the ok,for this reason i did not let it put me off the purchase.i think that with a car of this age many of them will have been in non recorded accidents to .

            Comment


            • #7
              Rear quarters are roughly £300, labour to fit £200, labour to paint £250 total £750. How can that be the reason the insurance company wrote the car off.
              You are clearly one of the many write off owners that believe this was the only damage.

              The certificate of repair doesn’t mean anything. Did they remove the back wings & inner trims to check it wasn’t all filler? No they can only see what visible not what’s been bodged & hidden.

              And surely if all the car wanted was one back quarter the repairer would have photographed this pre repair & given copies to the new owner to prove, let me guess this didn’t happen!

              Comment


              • #8
                Perespective is everything. A car that was written off in the year 2000 can be written off for a variety of reasons. The owner could have insurance that provides a new car in the event of accident when less than 1 year old. Stolen recovered. Etc etc. Forget the fact that the values have risen. 5 years ago these cars were worth far less and writt n off for little damage. That is why cat d is very much a good possibility. I would dig far deeper into a cat c.

                Cat d only means be wary. Not frightened.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Firstly, I personally wouldn't buy a vehicle that's been subject to a total loss - but everything has a value and for some it's a cheap way to own a car they otherwise couldn't afford, or even possibly could afford but would rather spend the money they saved elsewhere. Secondly much of what Walk has said is just dross and shows a lack of comprehension of insurers, total loss vehicles, repair costs, market values and probably markets in general (probably should've prefaced that with "without been rude" ).

                  Originally posted by Walk View Post
                  To be a write off it must have suffered structural damage
                  Incorrect! A write off is an accounting term used by insurers where it is simply uneconomical to repair - there are then different levels which may or may not involve structural damage. The level at which the insurer writes off the loss and the ratio of repair cost to vehicle value is entirely at the insurer's discretion and varies from one insurer to another. You also need to bear in mind that repairers' quotes will often vary wildly depending on many things from how busy they are (ie if they're not busy and want the work then they'll quote keenly versus if they are very busy they may quote themselves happy so it's no great loss if they don't get the job but if they do they'll certainly shuffle jobs around to make way for a very profitable job). How their relationship is with a particular insurer may also influence things (payment terms, how much the insurer interrogates a quote etc).
                  Originally posted by Walk View Post
                  Insurance companies don’t write cars off & pay out for the hell of it.
                  This is probably the most sensible thing you've said but sadly you've not applied the ethos to the remaining elements of process - the insurer would not allow a significantly structurally damaged car to be repaired if it would not be safe to do so (hence the different categories used).
                  Originally posted by Walk View Post
                  Rear quarters are roughly £300, labour to fit £200, labour to paint £250 total £750. How can that be the reason the insurance company wrote the car off.
                  These prices are highly unlikely to be the cost quoted by a reputable bodyshop to an insurer (or anyone I'd think)!! Glass out, old quarter off, wheel arch trim removed, new quarter installed, primed, painted and polished and glass and trim refitted etc... you're dreaming!
                  Originally posted by Walk View Post
                  And surely if all the car wanted was one back quarter the repairer would have photographed this pre repair & given copies to the new owner to prove, let me guess this didn’t happen!
                  Oh yes, because all bodyshops just love to spend their time taking photos of before and after the job. They've just got so much time on their hands. Indeed, some repairers will document thus but not all, and to assume that those that do not have not been done properly is just foolish.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lots of strong opinions as always with cat registered cars, there are a surprising number of m coupes registered and if the asking price reflects the status then personally I don't see a problem

                    with buying one as long as the buyer is made aware of the cat status and goes into it knowing that the car has had some kind of accident whether it be crash damage or engine failure as we have seen

                    on a recent silver coupe for sale, would I buy one maybe not but I would never say definitely no. Not sure if this coupe was cat c or d as the details have gone from the original advert.

                    Would I buy a damaged coupe and repair it / get it repaired yes if I had the skills !
                    Last edited by Dave P; 04-05-2018, 08:48 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Afternoon Matrix

                      You sound a very interesting person, if you ever fancy a beer don’t ask me.

                      The back wings can be removed in 2-3 hours, the glass isn’t effected & remains in place.
                      If all a car needed was a wing as suggested it would be painted off the car.


                      With regard to the photos;
                      The car would have been purchased by someone from a salvage auction, repaired & sold on as a damage repaired car. iF the damage was minor anyone in their right mind would have taken photos to prove the minor damage, this rarly if ever happens as most write offs have suffered major damage.

                      Have you printed this & under lines in red pen or do you use a highlighter?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have purchased various nearly new (less than 12 months old) BMW, Merc & Audi over the last 25 years from main dealers, and even some of those cars had recieved paint / repair in their lives - not all repairs are poor, these cars were my daily drivers, but equally I have bought many 'weekend' cars, Porsche, BMW, etc for trackways & fun, and some have been insurance 'write offs' - certainly my findings when stripping these cars for track or race is that they were repaired absolutely fine, or in fact I could not even find the repair.
                        I purchased my Imola Red M Coupe, unseen in 2007 for £7k with 98k miles on it & 3 owners, but listed as a Cat C. I stripped that car to its bear shell, rebuilt it for racing, & raced it (a lot) for 5 years, it's geometry & everything else critical for a full race car, was spot on, it was straight & drove perfectly, I never found any sign of repair on that shell anywhere.
                        Insurers 'write off' vehicles for many reasons, and many factors influence their reason at the time, the only sensible thing to do is take each car on a case by case basis, and whilst some cars would have been 'bodged' or poorly repaired, equally there are many that are absolutely fine.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Walk View Post
                          Afternoon Matrix

                          You sound a very interesting person, if you ever fancy a beer don’t ask me.
                          Walk, don't flatter yourself. I prefer to spend time with people less ill-informed and opinionated than yourself.

                          Originally posted by Walk View Post
                          The back wings can be removed in 2-3 hours, the glass isn’t effected & remains in place.
                          If all a car needed was a wing as suggested it would be painted off the car.
                          Admittedly, I overlooked that the glass stays in but the wing should certainly NOT be painted off the car - the inner wing would be painted off the car but the topcoat and laccquer would be done after fitting. Your painter may do it differently but purely by chance I've just been to see my painter as he's doing some bits for me at the moment and he confirmed that to do it properly on a car of this age there may be some blending required. (and he knows the M Coupes inside out having done just about everything on them from bumper resprays to full restorations).

                          Originally posted by Walk View Post
                          With regard to the photos;
                          The car would have been purchased by someone from a salvage auction, repaired & sold on as a damage repaired car. iF the damage was minor anyone in their right mind would have taken photos to prove the minor damage, this rarly if ever happens as most write offs have suffered major damage.
                          So many assumptions! The car could have been bought by anyone and they're not always auctioned. The presence of photos would be entirely down to what the customer asks for - not everyone will specifically request detailed photos and for you to assert that just because there aren't any then it's not been repaired properly is presumptuous and daft.

                          Originally posted by Walk View Post
                          Have you printed this & under lines in red pen or do you use a highlighter?
                          No, fortunately I'm able to recall when people spout opinionated drivel so I don't need to borrow your crayons, so feel free to continue munching on them.

                          It seems you've already made your mind up about written off vehicles and I wouldn't buy one either, but your reasoning seems utterly flawed to me and that's all I was aiming to point out. But you seem steadfast in your life of assumptions so it's probably not worth trying to enlighten you further. All the best!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DougW View Post
                            I have purchased various nearly new (less than 12 months old) BMW, Merc & Audi over the last 25 years from main dealers, and even some of those cars had recieved paint / repair in their lives - not all repairs are poor, these cars were my daily drivers, but equally I have bought many 'weekend' cars, Porsche, BMW, etc for trackways & fun, and some have been insurance 'write offs' - certainly my findings when stripping these cars for track or race is that they were repaired absolutely fine, or in fact I could not even find the repair.
                            I purchased my Imola Red M Coupe, unseen in 2007 for £7k with 98k miles on it & 3 owners, but listed as a Cat C. I stripped that car to its bear shell, rebuilt it for racing, & raced it (a lot) for 5 years, it's geometry & everything else critical for a full race car, was spot on, it was straight & drove perfectly, I never found any sign of repair on that shell anywhere.
                            Insurers 'write off' vehicles for many reasons, and many factors influence their reason at the time, the only sensible thing to do is take each car on a case by case basis, and whilst some cars would have been 'bodged' or poorly repaired, equally there are many that are absolutely fine.
                            I agree. In fact it's feasible that the poorer repairs are more likely to be done on Ford Mondeos, Vauxhall Insignias etc since a repaired sports or specialist car is far more likely to come under closer scrutiny by any prospective buyer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have a coupe that was written off shortly into my ownership and in my specific case there was no crash or structural damage. It was actually fire damage to the interior due to an accident when doing pre-emptive strengthening on the boot floor.

                              I can't remember the exact numbers but I'm sure the insurance quoted it as being £19k to replace the entire interior (most of it was fine, but to do a complete job this was what they wanted to do) not including labour and cost of rental car during repair etc. At the time the cars value would have been around £10K so would take a lot of arguing and to get close to breaking even on it. With no plans to sell the car I decided to take the money and buy the car back.

                              Due to this I don't agree that any Cat Registered car is guaranteed to have structural damage or have been in a crash. I do agree though that the vast majority of cars advertised as Cat C or Cat D (all cars, not just m coupes) state, with no promise of any evidence to prove it, that it was very light damage and the repair is not noticeable. I can't say I believe most of them but not impossible.

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